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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 7610
Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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 Posted: Thu, 03 Jan, 2008 17:45 Post subject: |
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Ive heard a few dj's lately saying their label will only release 12" s, i heard Andy Witby say that on the Tidy Boys show a month or so ago. I hope more dj's with their own labels do this too,it seems that the record dj's are slowly but surely being forgot about with the new tunes out on CD first and with more remixes 
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Urban Soundz
Contributing Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 135
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu, 03 Jan, 2008 20:44 Post subject: |
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I hate to put a downer on things, but the future will not be mapped by a handful of militant DJ's, mores the pity, it'll be steered by those with the money. as the saying goes money makes money, and those with lots of it never make enough and are always on the look out to stream line their operations to maximise their profits. By taking away the physical product and replacing it with a virtual version the record companies stand to save millions for some of the bigger labels and even thousands for the smaller labels.
Bear in mind quite a few organisations own a number of different labels, a classic is Ministry of Sound, they own loads of labels across the spectrum of house should they choose to go digital, only then it wont be just one label it'll be half a dozen all at the same time. The knock on effect will be the other big boys will follow in time, reducing the amount of material available on vinyl, thus leaving the smaller labels not much choice but to follow suit.
It pains me to say it, the writing is on the walls, I suspect Vinyl has around another 5 years until it will be available on only a handful of labels I don't believe the DJ will die out merely adapt to the progress of technology.
Believe me I don't want this to happen as much as any other dj, but when MN2S went digital only earliar this year and since most big independant dance record shops that have online stores now sell everything on mp3 I've had a rethink
imagine the storage space required for the two formats, with the right organisation, you could run a multi million pound mp3 distribution company from your home, yet again slashing overheads.
I will only ever play Vinyl.
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neljan
Contributing Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 327
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri, 04 Jan, 2008 15:16 Post subject: |
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I can't see how going completely MP3 will be beneficial to the labels, if anything, I think they will lose money.
If they phase out vinyl in favour of releasing MP3's conveniently downloadable from the web, then they are putting alot of trust in people not to share them & whatever copyright encryption idea they think of, it will be cracked (even if it's a simple 'record what you hear' crack).
The only thing I can think of that they could do is making DJ equipment able to download directly from the labels, but even then you can record the sound to MP3 via an external source so theres no way they could stop piracy. True, people are sharing now, but if the only format in which people could buy their music was MP3 then it stands to reason that the likelihood of people sharing/swapping MP3's will be much greater. I don't know about you, but once I buy a record it's my pride & joy & I'd be cautious about even lending it to anyone, let alone sharing it! but an MP3? yeah sure... have 2 copies! only cost me £1.50 afterall!
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TigerLand
Moderator
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri, 04 Jan, 2008 15:40 Post subject: |
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Also if the companys are thinking right this minute everyone is buying their new MP3 releases legally then they are fooling themselves.Kids are downloading tunes from their mates over msn and limewire etc and then the companys will see they will be loosing money. Records ok can be dubbed up but in general are a lot safer than MP3's being shared illegally.
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Urban Soundz
Contributing Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 135
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat, 05 Jan, 2008 12:03 Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure the big boys are more than aware of the potential piracy issues that come with mp3 format, however there have always been piracy issues within the industry and given the potential profits you can garauntee they are currently looking at ways to protect their intrests through reserch and development.
I recall when the Apple I-Pods fist came out you could only purchase the tunes via recomended licenced retailers sites. (I might have this a little bit wrong as I Don't have one and never will, I use a mini disc player). I recall it wasn't long until someone found away of converting cd's and mp3s to the required format for an I-Pod, so they've started looking at piracy issues already, and yes there will always be cracks, but with cracks you run the risk of making things unstable, I had to completely reinstall my operating system and programmes after installing cracked software, as my machine started crashing.
Compelation CD's is where the real money lies, people like minestry put together there compelation albums a large amount of tracks will be on one of their labels so it costs a small amount to the artist, followed by a few exchange deals with other labels for other tracks, "let us put your track on our compelation CD and you can put one of our tracks on your compelation CD" a hand ful of tracks they have to pay for probably costs about £50k, dj to mix the tracks, sound engineer to record and production, material and distribution say another £100k to produce a million copies, sold at £10 = £9,850,000, take away the mark up by the shops and your looking at around £4,000,000 profit per million CD's sold.
Yes there are thousands upon thousands of mixes available over the web, so why buy the compelation CD's?
like I like to collect vinyl, there's millions of people who collect CD's so the demand is there, the percentage of people who buy vinyl is a lot lower so the demand is less. If you go into somewhere like HMV they will have a whole rack of the latest Defected compelation CD of about 200+ copies and then if you go to the vinyl section they will have no more than 30 copies of the vinyl version of the same album in the rack.
I doubt my figures are acurate but I would say they are a fair representation.
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TigerLand
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| Posted: Sat, 05 Jan, 2008 13:15 Post subject: |
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Note to self, never argue a point with Urban Soundz about music lol You really know your stuff mate  
You said above that you'll only ever use vinyl, but surely you feel the creep of a cd deck coming towards you? I can feel it and its strong,but i'm desperately fighting the urge to get one 
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Spitfire
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 2673
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 1:09 Post subject: |
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no doubt about it, CD decks are great. but would you trade vinyls for cds thats the question... if u got the odd mp3 track from mates productions theyve sent you for example then there great but wud you give up the natural sounds and feel of a record over a digital sound?
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"Yeh, I'm a club head. What of it? I dance Better then you. Your a punk! You bounce your head up and down, I move my feet around. I feel the rhythem; You feel the scream. The Difference between you and me:
I'll save my breath, but i'm gonna club 'till I die"
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Urban Soundz
Contributing Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 135
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 11:37 Post subject: |
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| TigerLand wrote: |
Note to self, never argue a point with Urban Soundz about music lol You really know your stuff mate
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Thanks, but it's just healthy discussion, I don't profess to be any wiser than the next person, this is merely my conspiracy theory, I may turn out to be totally wrong but it gets you thinking and as the saying goes "forewarned is forearmed" (I think).
I pray it never happens, it came close around the back end of the 80's /early 90's with the emergance of CD's, commercial middle of the road rock /pop stuff started to ditch vinyl for CD, this immediately put the cost of producing tunes on vinyl up, however the demnd for dance tunes on vinyl never dropped not everyone had a cd player almost every household had a turntable of sorts almost 20 years on and situations have reversed, almost every household has a cd player and only a small proportion have a turntable of sorts.
recordable CD's killed off audio tape cassetes because they do exactly the same only better, when CD turntables first emerged, you couldn't get a feel for the tune properly, you know what I mean, when you place the needle on the groove of a vinyl record and you bring it back and forth as you catch the beat, you can feel the beat and visually see where it is in relation to the position of the record, now they have these rotary plate things on top which give you that feel and visual need. This is worrying because now CD's can almost do the same as vinyl.
It's also worrying about mp3's I know there is mixing software available, I played around with a Native Instruments programme a couple of years ago and was pretty impressed with what it could do, and I've seen this kit advertised that you can get that plugs into your pc/laptop that for all itents is a deck and mixer but it controls whats happening in the pc, I know physical automation of of virtual controls has been possible for decades, through midi, so it's no suprise this stuff has emerged, and if memory serves me right this stuff has been available for around 5 years.
| TigerLand wrote: |
| You said above that you'll only ever use vinyl, but surely you feel the creep of a cd deck coming towards you? I can feel it and its strong,but i'm desperately fighting the urge to get one |
I tried once or twice, a club I used to play at had a set of dennon ones with the little rotary dial for adjusting the incoming tune, I couldn't get the hang of it and my opinion then was if it ain't broke don't fix it, I could use vinyl, everywhere had decks , I had vinyl, it was still available in mass so why change.
a few years later someone I knew wanted to be a DJ so went out and bought a numrk set up, I had a go again, I couldn't get on with it and then a couple of years later I came across the pioneer ones with the little platter on top had a go and found them a massive improvement.
I wont change now though, I have far too many tunes on vinyl and nothing on CD, and I'm not going to reord all my vinyl to CD it would take far too long.
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 12:20 Post subject: |
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Yeah i know what you mean, no way in hell im going to go through all mine and put them to cd...lifes too short for that like lol
As BalistiK said having cd decks is good for your mates lending you their new tunes to try out or if your a music maker yourself you can take your tunes or mashups to the club and show off. I remember when it was cool and everyone thought it was brilliant using 2 records with one of them being an acapella and you fought like mad to keep the acapella in for a few minutes,now people just want to add those 2 the once and make it an MP3
How cool it sounded to hear a dj mix scratching with an acapella record then using it a few times in his mix...Dj Tizer comes to mind 
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Urban Soundz
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 135
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 13:47 Post subject: |
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| TigerLand wrote: |
I remember when it was cool and everyone thought it was brilliant using 2 records with one of them being an acapella and you fought like mad to keep the acapella in for a few minutes,now people just want to add those 2 the once and make it an MP3
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surely that's no real difference from the mash ups that are available on vinyl, there have been some pretty well known ones over the years like "Tocha Me"
(I think that's what it's called) it was around about a few years ago and even more recent "the egg" thing, I've got the accapella on the flip of another david guettara tune that was out a couple of years previous.
and if you want to do it yourself, there are little vinyl cutting macines available for about a grand, you could be messing around on the decks at home, come up with a storming mix and cut it to vinyl ready to take with you to a club that night.
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 18:24 Post subject: |
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Aye its the same thing but people want to do the mash up then put it onto MP3 or plate where as back in the day you just used the acapella seperate all the time just using skill not having the mashup recorded.
I seen one of those plate machines in DJMag, brilliant looking and would save a LOT of money
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djschampo
Just popping in
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Thu, 10 Jan, 2008 18:24 Post subject: You know, this is a very complicated question. |
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Let me just start by saying that a dj is not someone that just mixes songs back and forth between two turn tables or cdj's. A dj is someone that know's his/her music as well as he/she knows the back of their hand. This art is complex and not just something that you just do. No matter who you are and how talented of an ear you have, there are way more elements to it than just turntable's or cdj's. Whichever medium you are playing on at any given time, your control of the individual elements of the sound of the music you are playing is what is really important to pay attention. Lets face it. Every scenario you play in will be different from venue to venue, party to party. I have been spinning for 3 years now and I am just now able to truly define this. The rest of the time before this I have been mastering the feel and different elements of not just one medium, but many. To me, it is extremely important to not get caught up in the symantics of it and stay true to the art.
I personally play on turn tables using a module called traktor scratch as a medium to play my mp3's. I like the feel of vinyl better, but I often play on cdj's when I play out. I feel that as a dj, you should play a lot on all types of media so that it becomes second nature to you. Once that happens, you won't have the frustration of not knowing the equipment.
The other necessary element is to know the structure of music in general and how it is controlled by the mixer. For instance, playing progressive house is very intricate in it's elements. The beauty of a great dj is the subtlety in which he/she mixes the music together. Knowing when the drops are, and when to bring in or take out bass, mid, or treble to emphasize the music and maximize it's effect. I know that in most cases, you are mixing whole tracks whether vinyl or digital, but each track is made up of many sublayers that can combine with the same from the other track to create different effects. The greats can do this flawlessly and you can hardly hear it. It just sounds like another progression through the same continuous song. It hits you without you even knowing it or anticipating it. I could go on about this all day, but the subject at hand is vinyl or cdj's right?
Yes but different situations call for versatility in today's dj. There is no escaping it unless your Jon Digweed or someone massive and you can ask for whatever you like best in your contract. Most of us aren't on that level though despite aspiring to be.
The last thing that I will say is that vinyl has another element to it that digital can't have. Alpha and beta waves. The way that vinyl is cut causes it to emit waves that you cannot hear, but that evoke a certain change in the human body when experienced. Alpha waves cause a relaxation and beta waves cause a heightened alertness in most people. That is why, in addition to the experience of the music, the vinyl can command a crowd in a certain almost trancelike way. I have heard that modern producers have embedded these alpha waves and beta waves that are naturally created by vinyl, but I am unaware of how this is done.
Lets all just play music and respect the art for what it is. The complexities of the different variations out there present the modern dj with a challenge that was previously absent. The challenge to become even better than you could possibly without these differences in circumstances. Will you live up to the challenge, that is for you to decide. Just remember that the most important element is the enjoyment and involvement of your listeners, no matter the medium, venue, equipment or lack there of.
Stay up and get down.
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djschampo
Just popping in
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Fri, 11 Jan, 2008 9:11 Post subject: |
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| TigerLand wrote: |
Aye its the same thing but people want to do the mash up then put it onto MP3 or plate where as back in the day you just used the acapella seperate all the time just using skill not having the mashup recorded.
I seen one of those plate machines in DJMag, brilliant looking and would save a LOT of money |
This is one of the things I love the most about today's technology. I can take a track, loop a certain part of it, and us it as a tool to emphasize and change the structure of the track I'm playing. I don't however, think that you should program your set at all. You should just know your music well enough to be able to use it like an instrument. It's amazing what you can do. It takes a lot of focus and practice because with a timecoded vinyl and a medium like traktor scratch, you still have to ride the beat for a long time, but if you do it right. It has taken me a long time to master it, but the result is something that you couldn't acheive with conventional vinyl. I encourage anyone who can to try these tools.(serato, traktor scratch, deckadance, etc.)
The misconception is that it makes it easier. Not at all ladies and gentleman. We all know, like being in the tooth brush isle at the grocery store, that more options means more choice which can sometimes lead to a complete lack of direction and focus. If anything, there is a new level of challenge that could never have even been fathomed before. I love it, but when it rains it poors.
This goes back to the last post I made. The only solution is to season yourself on everything you can, and remember....Fundamentals are always your foundation. Like I said. The greats can do things you never thought of and make it sound like nothing has happened but what naturally was going to happen anyway.
God I love this art.
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DJ S-Champo
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Urban Soundz
Contributing Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 135
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat, 12 Jan, 2008 11:06 Post subject: |
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| djschampo wrote: |
| I don't however, think that you should program your set at all. You should just know your music well enough to be able to use it like an instrument. It's amazing what you can do |
Very True!
I'm only in this because I love music, I like to think it's about taking people on a unique Journey, a once in a lifetime experiance never to be repeated, no two sets should be the same, the job of the dj is to get people on to the dance floor by expressing your musical expertise upon them, you need to work the right tunes at the right time. Although I can mix two tracks together I've always believed it's the selection that has the higest priority.
Don't get me wrong I'm in awe of technical advancements and I do fiddle from time to time, I'm not resistant to change, but in my case I'm knocking on a bit and Playing out has become less and less over the last few years, so I pretty much play for my own entertainment.
I think one of the reasons I prefer Vinyl is you can see the breaks in a tune by the change in the groove pattern, as opposed to CD you just see numbers
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Xtorshon
Just popping in
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 2
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat, 12 Jan, 2008 15:12 Post subject: |
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Personally I prefer mixing Vinyl due to the unpredictability of fucking up the mix.. you feel more like a Dj on vinyl.. but I also like the fact of hearing new songs just finished mixed into another track.. and with Cd's you can create your own songs and add in quirky little effects in..
I mix on both and Digital is definatly the future.. but I know dj's wont bin vinyl totally.
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Spitfire
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Sun, 13 Jan, 2008 1:39 Post subject: |
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i agree. i mix with both and i do feel in a way that cds will eventually become the main thing because of the versatility that comes with it. you will never get the same feel tho with a cd. Numark tried to come up with a magic cd/turntable releasing the CDX and the Hybrid (which plays both CD and Vinyl) and even tho on the CD you have the 12" platter and the realistics of a turntable, its still not quite there. the Hybrid was a great idea in my oppinion. i was planning on investing in a pair myself but even tho it plays vinyl, when it comes to CD's its the same thing. heaps better feel then the CDX's thats for sure
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"Yeh, I'm a club head. What of it? I dance Better then you. Your a punk! You bounce your head up and down, I move my feet around. I feel the rhythem; You feel the scream. The Difference between you and me:
I'll save my breath, but i'm gonna club 'till I die"
- Paul Oakenfold |
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DaNcinCanCer
Just popping in
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat, 19 Jan, 2008 9:29 Post subject: Opinion on Vinyl vrs CD's |
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[font=Comic Sans MS] [/font][color=olive] [/color]
oKAY. . first off I can't say that I can even begin to comprehend the complex art of spinning vinyl. . . let along understand the digital world of mp3/cd/etc. . but as a HouSe daNceR I know nothin' beats HeaRin the snap and crackle of a record freshly picked from the overfilling unKNowNs of the dj CRateS. . .. Watchin' a dj pick eXactLy the Right miX to keep my souL viBe-in. . and my step jazziN. . is for me at the very least. . a veRy peRsoNNaL experience thru MUSiC. I don't understand this whoLe "get with the FlOw biz and times are CHaNgin'" stuff. Cuz as a sax muSician myself. . couldn't imagine being replace by some automAtiC-CUE-button-->pReViousLy-programed.
~I count each beat. . each measure. . prepare mentally. . as I taKe a quiCk breath to bring in my sound ON MY OWN CREATED cue~
As far as people wanting MORE? I ALWAYS thought it was about the music. . what is it? want some laZer shoWs or something?
Well star trek. . . my heart is taken by the cReative magic----->STRICTLY<------ on the oNes and tWos.
~just my thoughts.
a side note->>ever heard a dj skip a cd LIKE that "beat-up-cd-at-that-ONE-spot"--mix, you have lyin' around at HOME? sad. . ... . ..
pEaCe~ |
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