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geckoheaven
Just popping in
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Mon, 24 Sep, 2007 11:45 Post subject: |
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the way i see it... If I was a carpenter, would i still be using a handsaw and a chissell instead of an electric saw and router?? well maybe, but no one would employ me to do work on their house! If that means I'm not a real DJ so be it but i'm doing ok, maybe we need a new name lol
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Spitfire
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 2423
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Mon, 24 Sep, 2007 11:52 Post subject: |
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thats a valid point you have there. having said that, a cuboard made with hand tools will always be better then a cuboard made with power tools. simply because there is more heart and care into the project. same with vinyl, you have more feel then to digital stuff
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JB
Just popping in
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Downtown Falkirk
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| Posted: Thu, 18 Oct, 2007 12:32 Post subject: |
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I have both fomats in my studio but the future is digital and thats why i splashed out on the goods from Mr Pioneer. When i play out i will be CDJ based first & formost. I can do a bootleg / mash up/new track in the studio and play it out that night, plus i have several hundred tracks in a handy wee wallet Sadly vinyl doesnt offer that
However, i do love taking a record out the sleeve, put it on the technic and hear the crackles at the start before the tune plays.
The future is Digital
The future is Pioneer!
IMO
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federico_giust
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Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Thu, 25 Oct, 2007 14:30 Post subject: |
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I also have both, but with cds you get much more music, and promos way more ahead in time before they get released.
And also cd decks like cdj1000 they work a lot like the vinyl. I know it's not exactly the same feeling but...
Also with cds you can get more tracks on the same cd, and have more music in less space. And they are cheaper to buy and also to manufacture.
I'll miss the 12"s  |
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Urban Soundz
Contributing Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed, 02 Jan, 2008 23:35 Post subject: |
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There are a number of labels that have gone exclusively digital recentlly, it looks very much the way of the future, commercially and logistically it makes sense, unfortunately there will be many DJ's that will hang up their headphones as vinyl is phased out. there's some cracking bits of software out there that allows you to mix mp 3's live, I can't even get on with CD's so I've no chance with mp3's.
I mainly collect tunes so it won't be a big deal for me apart from it will also be the end of my collecting, I'm not keen on the sound of mp3's , I'm told there of CD quality now a days, but it doesn't give you that warm feeling of vinyl.
I'm Vinyl til I die!
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neljan
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 327
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu, 03 Jan, 2008 1:27 Post subject: |
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| Reefy wrote: |
| Decks are like an instrument, you can totally f**k a tune up, manipulate different effects to compliment the main tune, back-spins, scratching, or play around with the surround sound and watch people fall over. |
Well said... what's the future gonna be like? turn up with a memory stick of a mix you've been making all week on your PC? where's the talent in that? CD mixing is a part of this progression & get's no respect from me. Apart from arrangement, everything else is pretty much simple & involves little talent.
We have to be careful here everyone, some are making it sound like we don't have a choice but to convert to CD/digital, but we do! I don't buy CD's, if you buy CD's, then they will phase out vinyl. Why would anyone buy CD releases when they can convert vinyl to CD if they really need to anyway? and digital releases? are you f*cking serious!?
A real DJ with talent uses vinyl. Think about this then: if everything goes digital, what with the advancements of technology/dj equipment, dj'ing will be simple & so everyone/anyone will be able to do it. People will not respect the dj anymore as it will be just another someone standing there playing a mixed mp3. Dj's will fall to their own lazyness.
BUY VINYL, KEEP DJ'S & DJ TALENT ALIVE!
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 7062
Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Thu, 03 Jan, 2008 17:45 Post subject: |
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Ive heard a few dj's lately saying their label will only release 12" s, i heard Andy Witby say that on the Tidy Boys show a month or so ago. I hope more dj's with their own labels do this too,it seems that the record dj's are slowly but surely being forgot about with the new tunes out on CD first and with more remixes 
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Urban Soundz
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu, 03 Jan, 2008 20:44 Post subject: |
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I hate to put a downer on things, but the future will not be mapped by a handful of militant DJ's, mores the pity, it'll be steered by those with the money. as the saying goes money makes money, and those with lots of it never make enough and are always on the look out to stream line their operations to maximise their profits. By taking away the physical product and replacing it with a virtual version the record companies stand to save millions for some of the bigger labels and even thousands for the smaller labels.
Bear in mind quite a few organisations own a number of different labels, a classic is Ministry of Sound, they own loads of labels across the spectrum of house should they choose to go digital, only then it wont be just one label it'll be half a dozen all at the same time. The knock on effect will be the other big boys will follow in time, reducing the amount of material available on vinyl, thus leaving the smaller labels not much choice but to follow suit.
It pains me to say it, the writing is on the walls, I suspect Vinyl has around another 5 years until it will be available on only a handful of labels I don't believe the DJ will die out merely adapt to the progress of technology.
Believe me I don't want this to happen as much as any other dj, but when MN2S went digital only earliar this year and since most big independant dance record shops that have online stores now sell everything on mp3 I've had a rethink
imagine the storage space required for the two formats, with the right organisation, you could run a multi million pound mp3 distribution company from your home, yet again slashing overheads.
I will only ever play Vinyl.
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neljan
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Location: London
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| Posted: Fri, 04 Jan, 2008 15:16 Post subject: |
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I can't see how going completely MP3 will be beneficial to the labels, if anything, I think they will lose money.
If they phase out vinyl in favour of releasing MP3's conveniently downloadable from the web, then they are putting alot of trust in people not to share them & whatever copyright encryption idea they think of, it will be cracked (even if it's a simple 'record what you hear' crack).
The only thing I can think of that they could do is making DJ equipment able to download directly from the labels, but even then you can record the sound to MP3 via an external source so theres no way they could stop piracy. True, people are sharing now, but if the only format in which people could buy their music was MP3 then it stands to reason that the likelihood of people sharing/swapping MP3's will be much greater. I don't know about you, but once I buy a record it's my pride & joy & I'd be cautious about even lending it to anyone, let alone sharing it! but an MP3? yeah sure... have 2 copies! only cost me £1.50 afterall!
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri, 04 Jan, 2008 15:40 Post subject: |
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Also if the companys are thinking right this minute everyone is buying their new MP3 releases legally then they are fooling themselves.Kids are downloading tunes from their mates over msn and limewire etc and then the companys will see they will be loosing money. Records ok can be dubbed up but in general are a lot safer than MP3's being shared illegally.
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Urban Soundz
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007
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Location: England
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| Posted: Sat, 05 Jan, 2008 12:03 Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure the big boys are more than aware of the potential piracy issues that come with mp3 format, however there have always been piracy issues within the industry and given the potential profits you can garauntee they are currently looking at ways to protect their intrests through reserch and development.
I recall when the Apple I-Pods fist came out you could only purchase the tunes via recomended licenced retailers sites. (I might have this a little bit wrong as I Don't have one and never will, I use a mini disc player). I recall it wasn't long until someone found away of converting cd's and mp3s to the required format for an I-Pod, so they've started looking at piracy issues already, and yes there will always be cracks, but with cracks you run the risk of making things unstable, I had to completely reinstall my operating system and programmes after installing cracked software, as my machine started crashing.
Compelation CD's is where the real money lies, people like minestry put together there compelation albums a large amount of tracks will be on one of their labels so it costs a small amount to the artist, followed by a few exchange deals with other labels for other tracks, "let us put your track on our compelation CD and you can put one of our tracks on your compelation CD" a hand ful of tracks they have to pay for probably costs about £50k, dj to mix the tracks, sound engineer to record and production, material and distribution say another £100k to produce a million copies, sold at £10 = £9,850,000, take away the mark up by the shops and your looking at around £4,000,000 profit per million CD's sold.
Yes there are thousands upon thousands of mixes available over the web, so why buy the compelation CD's?
like I like to collect vinyl, there's millions of people who collect CD's so the demand is there, the percentage of people who buy vinyl is a lot lower so the demand is less. If you go into somewhere like HMV they will have a whole rack of the latest Defected compelation CD of about 200+ copies and then if you go to the vinyl section they will have no more than 30 copies of the vinyl version of the same album in the rack.
I doubt my figures are acurate but I would say they are a fair representation.
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Sat, 05 Jan, 2008 13:15 Post subject: |
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Note to self, never argue a point with Urban Soundz about music lol You really know your stuff mate  
You said above that you'll only ever use vinyl, but surely you feel the creep of a cd deck coming towards you? I can feel it and its strong,but i'm desperately fighting the urge to get one 
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Spitfire
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 1:09 Post subject: |
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no doubt about it, CD decks are great. but would you trade vinyls for cds thats the question... if u got the odd mp3 track from mates productions theyve sent you for example then there great but wud you give up the natural sounds and feel of a record over a digital sound?
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I'll save my breath, but i'm gonna club 'till I die"
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Urban Soundz
Contributing Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 11:37 Post subject: |
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| TigerLand wrote: |
Note to self, never argue a point with Urban Soundz about music lol You really know your stuff mate
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Thanks, but it's just healthy discussion, I don't profess to be any wiser than the next person, this is merely my conspiracy theory, I may turn out to be totally wrong but it gets you thinking and as the saying goes "forewarned is forearmed" (I think).
I pray it never happens, it came close around the back end of the 80's /early 90's with the emergance of CD's, commercial middle of the road rock /pop stuff started to ditch vinyl for CD, this immediately put the cost of producing tunes on vinyl up, however the demnd for dance tunes on vinyl never dropped not everyone had a cd player almost every household had a turntable of sorts almost 20 years on and situations have reversed, almost every household has a cd player and only a small proportion have a turntable of sorts.
recordable CD's killed off audio tape cassetes because they do exactly the same only better, when CD turntables first emerged, you couldn't get a feel for the tune properly, you know what I mean, when you place the needle on the groove of a vinyl record and you bring it back and forth as you catch the beat, you can feel the beat and visually see where it is in relation to the position of the record, now they have these rotary plate things on top which give you that feel and visual need. This is worrying because now CD's can almost do the same as vinyl.
It's also worrying about mp3's I know there is mixing software available, I played around with a Native Instruments programme a couple of years ago and was pretty impressed with what it could do, and I've seen this kit advertised that you can get that plugs into your pc/laptop that for all itents is a deck and mixer but it controls whats happening in the pc, I know physical automation of of virtual controls has been possible for decades, through midi, so it's no suprise this stuff has emerged, and if memory serves me right this stuff has been available for around 5 years.
| TigerLand wrote: |
| You said above that you'll only ever use vinyl, but surely you feel the creep of a cd deck coming towards you? I can feel it and its strong,but i'm desperately fighting the urge to get one |
I tried once or twice, a club I used to play at had a set of dennon ones with the little rotary dial for adjusting the incoming tune, I couldn't get the hang of it and my opinion then was if it ain't broke don't fix it, I could use vinyl, everywhere had decks , I had vinyl, it was still available in mass so why change.
a few years later someone I knew wanted to be a DJ so went out and bought a numrk set up, I had a go again, I couldn't get on with it and then a couple of years later I came across the pioneer ones with the little platter on top had a go and found them a massive improvement.
I wont change now though, I have far too many tunes on vinyl and nothing on CD, and I'm not going to reord all my vinyl to CD it would take far too long.
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 12:20 Post subject: |
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Yeah i know what you mean, no way in hell im going to go through all mine and put them to cd...lifes too short for that like lol
As BalistiK said having cd decks is good for your mates lending you their new tunes to try out or if your a music maker yourself you can take your tunes or mashups to the club and show off. I remember when it was cool and everyone thought it was brilliant using 2 records with one of them being an acapella and you fought like mad to keep the acapella in for a few minutes,now people just want to add those 2 the once and make it an MP3
How cool it sounded to hear a dj mix scratching with an acapella record then using it a few times in his mix...Dj Tizer comes to mind 
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Urban Soundz
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 13:47 Post subject: |
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| TigerLand wrote: |
I remember when it was cool and everyone thought it was brilliant using 2 records with one of them being an acapella and you fought like mad to keep the acapella in for a few minutes,now people just want to add those 2 the once and make it an MP3
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surely that's no real difference from the mash ups that are available on vinyl, there have been some pretty well known ones over the years like "Tocha Me"
(I think that's what it's called) it was around about a few years ago and even more recent "the egg" thing, I've got the accapella on the flip of another david guettara tune that was out a couple of years previous.
and if you want to do it yourself, there are little vinyl cutting macines available for about a grand, you could be messing around on the decks at home, come up with a storming mix and cut it to vinyl ready to take with you to a club that night.
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TigerLand
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: East Belfast,Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Sun, 06 Jan, 2008 18:24 Post subject: |
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Aye its the same thing but people want to do the mash up then put it onto MP3 or plate where as back in the day you just used the acapella seperate all the time just using skill not having the mashup recorded.
I seen one of those plate machines in DJMag, brilliant looking and would save a LOT of money
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