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JIMMYCARBONE
Just popping in
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Mon, 06 Jun, 2005 12:27 Post subject: Creating beats for drum n bass and breakbeat - HOW? |
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Hello folks. My first post on here and possibly kicking off with a b-o-r-i-n-g one but I have a burning question but I dont care I have to know. Even considered taking my own life if I cant find the answer to this question, and then be able to do it myself of course.
Anyway...how the f$ck do you create proper, pro, flowing, quality beats for drum n bass and breakbeat?
I mean the wicked loops that you hear on professional tracks that can be bought/blagged in loop format or as cut up's. I go as far as using cut ups for breaks that i just cant re-create but still dont really like using them and I never, I say NEVER!! use loops in my tunes. I know people make them for others to use but its the old classic line for me 'you didnt make them your self', you didnt craft them from your own head.
I know that classics such as the 'Amen' drum n bass break are sampled from old tunes but I honestly struggle to make tight rollers with character without all my ****** patterns sounding like frigging Gameboy anthem breaks!!!
Lets face it its all been done on the drum pattern front maybe there's a few surprises left but its hard to be unique so I find great satisfaction when on the rare occasion I do make a wicked loop myself from individual hits.
Basically I use FL5 with Sound Forge8 and maybe I should just change my sequencer but any advice, tips, tricks, hints and help will greatfully appreciated, failing that will someone please supply gun with one bullet.
RESPECT
JIMMYCARBONE |
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Kileak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon, 06 Jun, 2005 18:50 Post subject: |
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Hey Jimmy,
First off.....you aren't gonna get quality results unless you first start with quality samples/plug-in's. As a friend once told me "You can't polish a turd." After you have your quality samples it's time to understand sound waves and mastering. I would suggest reading mastering/layering tutorials. I used to know of a good one online but can't seem to find it right now. I will post it later if i run across it. Use your quality samples and stack them on top of each other. Like this:
| Quote: |
Let's say this is your FL5 step sequencer.
Rock Drum:^...........^......^............
Amen Kick: ^...........^......^............
Rock Snare: ........^................^.......
Amen Snare:........^................^.......
...................>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry for the crappy diagram, but it's the best i can do right now. |
In my experience if you roll out the high freqs on the rock drum and the low freqs on the amen kick it will sound like a super amen kick. Same with the snares, bass, or whatever. Now if you have good quality samples and tweaked them correctly it should sound "full". This is a really simple example, of course you can use more kicks or snares for layering.
Hope this helps. |
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tgl
Junior Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue, 07 Jun, 2005 5:14 Post subject: |
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When I make breakbeat, I just put a drum kit up on an empty project in FL and try to recreate one of the many rhythms of Prodigy. Doesn't matter if the sound isn't right.
Then I export it to WAV and load it up in ReCycle. There, I slice it up for use in the fruity slicer.
I add distortion, bit crushing, reverb, EQ, compressors, etc
I like to make many beats using the example above, and then put them all together. Layering them.
I almost always use a bitcrusher on the bass too and I ususally make my basses sound like they are evolving, and gliding. Long deep notes with portamento gliding fast up to some high notes just to keep interest. But gliding with a structure, so the glides aren't "one-hit-wonders" lol. (I forgot the english word for it)
Then when I have my sliced beats and bass, I add another bassdrum and snare on top of that again. Distortion. Bitcrushing. EVAL!
Examples of my BB work:
http://www.t-g-l.com/site/tracks/jumpdown.m3u
http://www.t-g-l.com/site/tracks/maximumoutput.m3u
_________________
http://www.t-g-l.com |
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JIMMYCARBONE
Just popping in
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue, 07 Jun, 2005 10:27 Post subject: |
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OK I will experiment with what you both said very usefull advice thanks. I do use good quality samples. I've managed to find some good downloadable ones and I've invested in a few sample cd's (Drum Fundamentals is pretty good) as yes indeed you cant polish a turd, I did try once but got shit all over my hands, very messy.
TGL, I'm liking your tunes. Mine dont have quite the same crsipness. I've recently been looking into eqing, compression and all of that and have only just realised how important it all is.
I just got a copy of reason recycle too but dont yet fully know how to use it properly.
GOD DAMN IT!! if I didnt have a girlfriend then I'd have time for all of this but on the other hand I'd also miss out on other things, hmmm.
Thanks
JIMMY |
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Kileak
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed, 08 Jun, 2005 17:51 Post subject: |
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| JIMMYCARBONE wrote: |
GOD DAMN IT!! if I didnt have a girlfriend then I'd have time for all of this but on the other hand I'd also miss out on other things, hmmm.
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lol story of our lives homie. 
Post up your work when you get something together. |
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JIMMYCARBONE
Just popping in
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu, 09 Jun, 2005 10:11 Post subject: |
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Haha, too true.
Yeah man will post some soon
Cheers
Jimmy |
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jonasthorell
Just popping in
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed, 07 Sep, 2005 13:32 Post subject: |
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Hi jimmy...
I'm sort of in the same shit as you.
Compression is essential to a drum & bass drum loop to me! If youre doing it in Reason, adding a scream 4 distorion (set on "tape") will make it sound much more "alive" too (it compresses it a bit to).
I've got the same ideas as you about using already done loops, but (again if you're using Reason) you can mess around with them, if you're just moving around the notes in the sequencer. Its also fun to controll the rex (reason loop) with a midi-keyboard.
The rex loops often contains good quality sounds, so you can use just a snare or a kick sound from them.
Just changing a bit on the compression, or changing a sound, can make i BIG difference to the sound of the loop.
Are you using reason?
Good luck!
_________________
over and out from sweden |
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jonasthorell
Just popping in
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed, 07 Sep, 2005 13:36 Post subject: |
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and one thing more...
try to add the "shaker" hihatt. Makes it sounds more dnb-ish... Play around with different hihatt sounds to get it sound right. Sounds good with compression...
long hihatt ^..^..^..^..^..^..^..^..
short hihatt ..^..^..^..^..^..^..^..^
also try to add a low freq kick, here and there (should not really be heard, just adding some more rythm to the loop). The same here, look around for one that sound good togheter with the other sounds.
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over and out from sweden |
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Rendall
Contributing Member
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 246
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Wed, 07 Sep, 2005 16:54 Post subject: |
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Your fighting a loosing battle my friend.....
You say, you won't use anything unless you created it. So you rule out loops. But how far should you take that principle? What about the samples you use, did you individualy record them? Using what mic positions for what effect? Or what about even, the program you're using? Did you write that? Ok, so you get my point.....
The thing is, those phat breaks that you oh so crave to achive, are created using live loops. The best breaks are live. Why? That's where drum & bass came from. Sped up funk & soul loops. The main reason that your failing to achieve the standards you want, are becuase of the groove. Programming beats simply does not give you the groove that live beats do.....
Meeting half way will give you the results your looking for. Getting a good live groove, and programming over the top, beefing it up. Then adding some compression, litte overdrive. Hey presto, phat break.
Remember, it's less about compression & EQ, and more about the grooooove....
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Vero
Junior Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat, 03 Feb, 2007 16:33 Post subject: |
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I use reason and recycle and they make good beats, they've good fx, although the compression is quite confusing at times. Try if you want to quantizing to 1/16T, then quantize to 1/16 at 25%, that adds a swing, perhaps to certain sounds.
Another good way is to take sampled breaks or homemade ones and to play kick/hihat/snare from one, followed by kick/hihat/snare on another, then go with compression and eq etc so that they 'fit' together nicely. Often practicing using sampled loops is good for finding sounds, also working with velocity while you write notes while improve the 'ambiance' of your drums.
Using bongo/conga sounds with delay or reverb often adds something, same goes for hihats/shakers, though snare/kick tends to be a bit too much with delay. Small room reverb set to small size and low wetness adds something, and tiny delays will cause phased effects. If you delay something like a shaker, then compression is often very useful, and when set 'heavily' it can create something very nice that might pass for a cymbal if used with a little reverb. In general it's best to avoid too much reverb.
You might want to write in 3/8 or other timesignatures, then switch back to 4/4 or whatever, that way loops come with ready made fills (a 'fill' means a variation, like toms rolling for example at the 16th bar of a 16 bar loop).
You might want to double your chosen tempo, that way there's more room for notes.
The hardest part I find is in getting the eq/compression right, often removing all frequencies then adding the ones that sound good is a useful.
In terms of varying loops one method to avoiding monotonous loops is to never copy/paste, or to turn off quantize - although that tends to become a long process.
Distortion is a difficult one, it's something that needs a bit of work, a tip would be to take a snare, add distortion that you enjoy, then a dry reverb, compress, and export the sound, then take the decay down (so it becomes short). Same with any sounds, I think making the sounds outside of the drum machine, then making beats with them inside the drum machine might be useful. |
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Timewaster
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Wiltshire UK
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| Posted: Sat, 24 Feb, 2007 16:02 Post subject: |
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Hi there, I used to make D&B but mainly Nu Skool Breaks now, but the principles are the same.
Try programming a chunky Bd, Sn & Hh in a simple Break or D&B style pattern (the key is keep it simple)
Then add a thin sounding half bar loop (all bass freq rolled off) this will pick the tempo up a bit. I know u don't like loops but it is only a half bar & you could make it yourself with rim perc, Hh & clap.
Finally some percussion a couple of congas, toms, rim shots, short synth noises, etc
Some level & eq adjustments bit of verb on the odd perc & that beat should be rollin'
hope this has been of use |
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Vero
Junior Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed, 07 Mar, 2007 11:26 Post subject: |
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Yes,if you use bongos, congas, rain-sticks and other drum sounds mixed in behind normal kicks and snares or hihats then you can find 'chunkier' styles of sound - of course doing this kind of thing depends on good mixing, and the compression/eq is vital. I tend to use congas (often over maybe 32 bars or more), then add delay, then mix them down, then add distortion so that I can hear them, then add compression/eq to finish them off. Or on the other hand, simply make a rythm with some drum sounds then add simple dnb rythms over the top to add further rythm or clarity... Try using 6/4 time signatures for making bongos then switch into 4/4 and the rythm will sound odd....
Another thing is that alot of dnb might sound very different without bass, so for drum work, often bass is integral to the finished article, that a pattern might sound too simple might be down to the lack of bassline. Another helpful tip is the use of fx and percussive 'one-shot' sounds, these have to be used well and they brighten up alot of repetitive rythms - a good tip is to use a reversed open hi hat or shaker, with lots of high eq, reverb/delay and 'fizzy' distortion, it could be played at around bar 14 of a 16 bar loop.
this is alos very useful advice:
| Quote: |
| you probobly want to turn your threshhold on compresser high on you low end sound's to keep the coming clean through your other drum sound's and your mid range and high end sound's EQ'ed with care to cut as much low end off of them to keep your bass clean. |
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ripper_nash
Just popping in
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed, 03 Oct, 2007 22:51 Post subject: |
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Quoting you,
"Hello folks. My first post on here and possibly kicking off with a b-o-r-i-n-g one but I have a burning question but I dont care I have to know. Even considered taking my own life if I cant find the answer to this question, and then be able to do it myself of course. "
I was feeling the same way. I just HATE how even though I've been djing and producing for a while and i can make top notch trance/techno sounds, when it comes to jungle/dnb beats i can rarely come up with that "busy" dnb sound without using loops.
me and my guitarist are trying to get some breakbeats/dnb style stuff done so i was looking to see where i coudl find some help. i got fl studio, reason, recycle, battery, ezdrummer, sonar and forge+acid.
add me up on msn: ripper_nash@hotmail.com
your forum post was: http://www.trugroovez.com/forums/creating-beats-for-drum-n-bass-and-breakbeat-how-t1634.html |
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JIMMYCARBONE
Just popping in
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu, 04 Oct, 2007 8:07 Post subject: |
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Bit late on the reply 
Anyway as you can tell I dont come ere often!! but thanks for the advice most of which is good. Yep looks like it's give into the loops and make them your own applying FX and so on. Seeing that I'm a well established member of a certain audio torrent site, nudge nudge, wink wink I can get pretty much anything I want. I've moved on a bit since 2005, the misses is still holdin me back…well…you gotta blame someone.
Cheers folks and happy noise makin - Jimmy
P.S See you in another 2 yrs  |
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RICHYTRADER
Just popping in
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue, 30 Oct, 2007 17:03 Post subject: |
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forget this whole "i wanna make my own beats from scratch" thing, end of the day dnb was built on resampling old breaks, its just a matter of putting some work in and finding out what breaks it is u wanna use, obviously the amen and apache breaks are used a lot in dnb but there are so many others that are complete classics like the cold sweat, worm, funky drummer, god made me funky (from a certain ed rush and optical classic) along with literally hundreds more, the way to personalise the break to u is by layering breaks and removing certain elements by either actually taking out the midi blocks or waves or some careful EQing, then adding more, u can add hits in or whatever u like to beef it up, lil bit of compression here and there(not everyone uses it tho) i generally used quite clean breaks for snare and kick hits then use old school breaks to give it a gritty dirty feel to it, u want ur kicks to be punching through somewhere around 90Hz and the snares somewhere around 200Hz but this can vary on the breaks ur using, also try adjusting the pitch to get a lower loop if it sounds too high. so yeah to sum up, dnb's foundations is from sampling breaks so NEVER forget that. ur track will probably sound rigid and robotic if u program using hit packs because u dont have the atmosphere from a live loop.
if u wanna sample the records urself some good places to look will be
Anything by James brown in the 70's
the meters
mr liston jazz thing oh yeah
herbie hancock...for a start
good luck and peace to u.
DNB FOREVER |
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